Edward Seidensticker on Nagai Kafu and Kawabata Yasunari - Grace

Edward Seidensticker on Nagai Kafu and Kawabata Yasunari

*I will preface this post by saying that I have previous experience with Seidensticker and his translations, primarily his translation of the Kagerou Nikki (which I highly recommend). Therefore, I will be slightly biased towards Seidensticker in this post.*

I found this piece by Edward Seidensticker to be very refreshing. The manner in which he speaks is very elegant, much like his translations themselves. Like some of the other articles and interviews that we have read, the main problem that seems to occur while translating is the distance in relationship between English and Japanese. Seidensticker frames this issue in the context of Japanese to English and English to Japanese. In both instances, he cites rhythm as the issue. In translations of an English work into Japanese, the Japanese often does not sync with the English, such as in a Japanese translation of Hamlet, which can at times have twice as many syllables as the English. The impression that I got from this is that Japanese translators place a heavier emphasis on accuracy and transcription of the content presented in the English text and hence sacrifice rhythm as a result. However, Seidensticker makes it seem that people who translate from Japanese to English are the opposite: sacrifice of pin-point accuracy for rhythm. I thought that this difference was an interesting example of how differences in culture can alter the methods used for translation of a work.

In addition, his comments on the different writing styles of Kawabata and Kafu and his different experiences that he had translating them were also very interesting due to how differently each author wrote in Japanese, and how this difference in style affected the translation experience for Seidensticker. Kawabata took a more traditional approach similar to Murasaki Shikibu whilst Kafu wrote in a Sino-Japanese style akin to most works of modern Japanese literature. Kawabata was often ambiguous, making translation difficult, while Kafu's prose was more clear and easier to translate in comparison. However, Seidensticker thoroughly enjoyed translating both authors despite the major differences in writing styles. This shows Seidensticker's resiliency as a translator. If he were still alive, I would definitely want to hear him speak more about his experiences as a translator!

8 Ways to Say You

 The author describes why translation requires skills and brainstorming and not just "mechanical processing." In the beginning of the reading, she claims that learning new languages and translation skills provide a new point of view. People might understand why someone who speaks different languages might comprehend and process stuff differently in their brain. 

Focusing on the translation process, it is not merely a process of translating English words into Japanese words by using the dictionary. Rather, it requires a lot of knowledge about grammatical differences and cultural background because there are numerous linguistic difference between Japanese and English. English tends to make the speaker's intentions clear in the beginning of the sentence by bringing the verb to the front. In this way, readers or listeners can understand what people want to say first. Additionally, explanations after the thesis can effectively support the speaker or author's ideas. Japanese, however, puts verb in the end of the sentence to indirectly convey the ideas to the readers. These major linguistic differences between two languages make the translation work more difficult because direct translation often does not work well. If someone directly translate a book which is written in English into Japanese, the flow of the sentence becomes a little odd, and these sentences often come out as too direct and strong. In contrast, direct translation from Japanese into English also makes readers have difficult time to understand author's thesis because Japanese literature often likes to imply their thesis, instead of directly mentioning it in the paper. 

These differences happen to make the translation more interesting and increase creativity because translation cab be different for each writer. 

8 Ways to Say You

 Author Cathy Hirano highlights in her work "Eight Ways to Say You: The Challenges of Translation," that literary translation goes beyond a technical process, and requires a deep understanding of the cultural and structural complexities of both languages. To give you an example, Japanese and English have different sentence structures and writing styles; Japanese writing is often more elusive and circular. And when it comes to translating, it's quite tricky to convey humor, natural conversations, and terms that carry significant cultural weight, such as "juku" in Japanese, which refers to cram schools for students. The overall objective of translation is to stay faithful to the source while remaining accessible to the readers, which involves sensitivity, as well as a cultural insight. Reading this article convinced me even more that translation is an art that requires a careful balance.

-Tai Koeda

8 Ways to Say You

 I really enjoyed this reading. In particular, I like how the author addressed her individual experience in attempting to translate works that had bits that just wouldn't work in the English language. I can really appreciate her approach to remedying the situation by talking to the author about how some changes could be made but also making sure that she wasn't overstepping any boundaries within the text. Also, she brings up the concept of "you" and how in the Japanese language it is not a word that is commonly used to address people whereas in the English language, it is possibly one of the most common words used. Finding intricate ways to express the humor behind a child using "you" in Japanese and turning it into a slightly different situation with the translation, but still keeping all of the emotions and reactions of the characters is very interesting and important to the situation. With translating between languages you have to deal with a ton of nuance whether it be grammar, humor, or culture and this author gives us just a sliver of everything she had to deal with during her time translating.  

-Cat Vess

Eight Ways to Say You - Micah Chan

    Reading "Eight Ways to Say You" gave me great insight into the many challenges that translators face. Cathy Hirano gave many great examples of these challenges. One that stuck out to me, was the translation of jokes. She gave an example of how in the original Japanese text of a book, a character referenced "Tokugawa Ieyasu," a well-known historical figure in Japan. This was the punchline of a joke, but when translated to English, readers would not find it funny due to Ieyasu not being well-known amongst English readers. As a result, Hirano switched out Ieyasu with Buddha, a more well-known figure. Though they are different in many ways, the switch provided the same humorous effect. This example opened my eyes to how difficult translating jokes could be and how much power a translator can have.

    Another nuance that Hirano highlighted was the use of the word "you" in English vs. Japanese. In English, it is very commonly used, but in Japanese, it is only used in certain contexts and can imply a wide variety of things depending on the version of "you" being used. Hirano made a reference to how a character used the "kimi" , a condescending way to say "you", which prompted an angry reaction. But when translated to English, the angry reaction would seem unwarranted as it doesn't appear that anything wrong was said. To me this really highlighted how big of an impact small details can have on a story and understanding the nuances of every word in Japanese when translating.

Eight ways to say you (Musashi)

This reading explained several difficulties in translating Japanese to English. I have experienced some of the same issues mentioned in the reading, and it was very interesting to hear some opinions on what we should do. Firstly, I really agree with the opinion that translation is far from mechanical manuals. There is more to translate than having a great foreign language dictionary. When I try to translate some words that I am not familiar with or read some AI-generated translation, even though they have chosen the right meaning from the dictionary, it often does not really flow well with the context or make sense.  Even if you translate sentences literally perfectly, it will never be good and convey any meaning. 

Secondly, the grammar differences were very interesting. As it said, Japanese often have no plural, abbreviated subjects, and so on, so when we translate, we have to do like jigsaw puzzle, and I thought that example was really accurate and funny. Moreover, I have never noticed before, but agree with how writing styles are so different. I learned the American writing style, which is an introduction to the body to the conclusion, so when I read Japanese books, I naturally expect the climax to come at the end. However, it never does in the order I expect and I often get confused. However, it also emphasizes that even if we do feel weird, authors are always correct, and we cannot change that drastically. I thought it was very important to know that. Lastly, the word, jersey was very funny because I know what jersey means in Japanese and English and how confusing it can be to the translator. 

"Eight Ways to Say You" Response: Camille

 The article provided helpful insight into the unique difficulties of translating Japanese texts. On the structural end, she discussed the issues of going from Japanese sentences which end in verbs to English sentences that don't. I definitely find that frustrating when I read Japanese now, so it was nice to hear that it's still a bit of a puzzle even for a professional translator! It was interesting to realize how many things that are left implied in Japanese sentences, and how if we translate without adding them in the sentences  no longer make sense. I liked how she specified that conveying the author's original meaning is also part of the translator's job, even when that means changing some of the words. 

I thought the way she handled juku was very interesting, although I can see how it could be controversial. I liked that the description was integrated into the story, and I don't think it would stick out from the rest of the text for most readers. Plus, I don't think putting juku in italics would be sufficient here, since it's such a big part of the story's setting. But, I can imagine that writing descriptions that blend well with the rest of the text is a challenge, and I can see how some translators might overstep in that process. 

Finally, I loved how she translated the joke about kimi. Using excessively formal language like "presume" was a great way to convey the tone of the original joke, without having to stray too far from the original text. 

Eight Ways to Say You (Kelly)

 In translating Japanese to English and vise versa, an interesting point that was brought up was the subtlety of the Japanese language. For me, when learning English, I do agree with Cathy that English is taught to express clarity and persuasion. All your essays and ideas should be linear with an introduction that provides context, followed by body paragraphs that present all your evidence, and ending with a conclusion that cleanly sums up all your points. I find the way that Japanese authors dance around their subjects and themes and allow the reader to take leaps in logic to grasp the story is understandably hard to translate into English. Here, I recognize the importance in the consideration Cathy takes into who the intended readers are and the purpose of the text. 

The part where Cathy talks about translating juku was also very interesting. There isn't really an equivalent in America where children attend school after their regular school day, so by describing juku in the translation despite it not being explained in the original text is a liberty that a translator may decide to take but I agree that it adds to the nuances of what juku is and the cultural significance it has in Japanese readers. And, of course, the eight different ways to say "you" was also a great point brought up. The way we address other people in English is quite straightforward wither either, name, pronouns, title or "you," but in Japanese the way you refer to someone can dramatically show or change how you feel about someone or reveal things about their status or age.

"Eight ways to say you" Response (Bruce)

     I was pleasantly surprised to see Hirano mention that Yumoto's primary goal with the English translation was to "make her work accessible for the North American audience," as it shows an appreciation of the difficulty of translation. Often times, beyond translating language, a translator has to translate culture. All the while, they must strive to maintain the structure and emotions that the author intended, and they must keep the editor happy. It's quite an intense balancing act, for what feels like little recognition. 
    Another part I found interesting was her discussion of structure, that Japanese is much more subtle and vague at points whereas English tends to be direct and clear. I don't necessarily subscribe to this comparison, however. With the 20th century literature movements, I feel that vagueness and subtlety has become much more accepted. The success of authors like Vonnegut, and even Gaiman as a recent example, shows as much. I think what really differs is the attitude towards consumers. Perhaps a Japanese publishing house is more confident that their consumer base would be receptive to more surreal text that challenges the reader to think, whereas North American companies tend to appeal to the lowest common denominators. 

"Eight Ways to Say You" Response (Umi)

Throughout the article, Cathy Hirano discusses the difficulties of translating texts in general as well as what makes translating Japanese into English especially harder. She mentions how the structure of the languages (ENG & JPN) are completely different and how Japanese authors tend to dance around the theme (imply rather than being direct), whereas English authors stress clarity. I found this to be quite an interesting point because I have read quite a few books which have been translated from Japanese to English (Murakami Haruki and Mishima Yukio). This means that there is a chance that the translated versions of the books I've read may have been much more clear and comprehensible than the original works, which now makes me curious to read the original, Japanese books. For the rest of article, Cathy discusses the other aspects of translating that troubled her such as integrating humor and integrating cultural context. She gave examples from books she had to translate and explained in the paper how she went about translating those specific examples. Having read other papers on translating Japanese to English, I already knew about the difficulties of integrating cultural context, however I had not truly realized how difficult it was until Cathy provided these examples. 

"Eight Ways to say You" Response (Jordan)

 I really liked reading "Eight Ways to Say You" because it provided many concrete examples of challenges that translators face, many of which were relatable to challenges I face when trying to speak Japanese. Ideally, when speaking another language you don't first think of whatever you want to say in your native language and then translate it, but this inevitably happens sometimes. And when this happens, you often find yourself sounding unnatural. Sometimes I know that what I want to say will sound unnatural, but I can't think of a better way to say it so I just say it anyway, which is uncomfortable. A common situation I run into that was touched upon was the issue of "you". In English you refer to other people as "you", or refer to a group of people as "you guys", but doing this in Japanese is not the same. Another issue that comes up a lot is when I catch part of the sentence the person I'm talking to said, but not the rest of it. In these cases, in English, I would say "What about [whatever the part I heard is]?". However, I don't know what is the most natural way to say this in Japanese. Reading about translation reminds me of why I love learning Japanese. It feels like opening a door to a new world that can only be experienced through a certain language. 

"Eight Ways to Say You" Response (Daniel)

After reading Cathy Hirano's "Eight Ways to Say You: The Challenges of Translation,” I found that it provided a lot of detail into the issues translators face, especially when translating Japanese literature into English. I really found it interesting how Hirano provided an example of how a Japanese sentence is typically formulated through the use of English words. It became very apparent how difficult it is to first dissect a sentence in Japanese, and then rearrange it to be readable in English. Moreover, her explanation of implied information in Japanese, such as the subject or plurality, echoed a lot of what we have read previously regarding how Japanese is much more subtle compared to English (which is quite blunt and direct). I also was surprised at how many things that we as a class have read and talked about were mentioned in the article, such as how to fully communicate cultural ideas and assumptions, how to convey the same type of humor when translating, and the complexities of translating the word “you.” 

Lastly, I found it extremely interesting when Hirano talked about arrogance. She explained that translating is a balancing act, requiring “a combination of humility, vigilance, and arrogance.” Initially, I was puzzled by this notion until I read why: “I need that arrogance during the translation process to sustain me to the finish. Otherwise I would be paralyzed by doubts.” This aspect of arrogance never crossed my mind when considering what sort of characteristics a translator typically has, but regardless, it definitely sheds light on the mindset of a translator, especially someone like Cathy Hirano, when approaching a literary work.

Eight Ways to Say You - Matt

 One of the first points that Hirano brings up within "Eight Ways to Say You" is the difficulty of walking between the line of direct translation and changing up the words a little to try and capture the meaning. This can be a difficult obstacle for any translator because you want to be able to capture the meaning of the text that the author has, without taking too much control over the words such that it becomes something that would not have come from the author. One of the methods that she uses is consulting the author about it. She brings up her example of her translating Kazumi Yumoto's book The Spring Tone in which she had used the word "jersey", and she had assumed she was talking about a sweater. But in actuality, after consulting Yumoto, she mean a sweat suit or track suit, and not a sweater at all. This is why it is important for the translators to ask questions even for little things to make sure that they are portraying the correct meaning.

Another interesting part that Hirano Talks about is the culture specific words that can cause a problem. In the book, The Friends, there is a joke where Kiyama blurts out the name of Tokugawa Ieyasu, a famous figure in Japanese history, whom happens to have round and smooth head. Using this in the english translation would prove meaningless since an english reader would not have the knowledge to know about this joke. So instead, they came to the conclusion of using Buddha instead so that they are able to keep the connotation of the Japanese cultural reference, but attaching it to something more known to a different audience so they could still laugh at the joke, and maintain the meaning as much as possible. 

It is interesting to see how much work is put into even the smallest of translations because of how important is can be to the overall meaning and context of the situation at hand. It seems that one of the best ways to try and keep the meaning between translations is going back to the author and seeing if they agree with the translation. There definitely is room for the translator to be creative, but there can sometimes be places that are super important to have the correct translation for the readers to fully understad.

Eight Ways to Say 'You" - The Challenges of Japanese Translation - Grace

 Eight Ways to Say 'You' - The Challenges of Japanese Translation

    Cathy Hirano's article "Eight Ways to Say You: The Challenges of Translation" touched on some of the problems that translators face while trying to localize a piece of literature.  She describes her primary goal when translating a piece from Japanese to English: to invoke the same feelings that a Japanese reader would have in her English readers. This view aligns with how I see translators: Intermediaries between the original work and foreign readers. However, accomplishing this goal does not come without challenges, many of which Hirano addresses in her piece. One example is the overall structure of the Japanese language in comparison to the English language. Hirano describes Japanese as more creative and brief. Sentences often offer little clarity to readers, who must be able to infer what the author is trying to convey. Whilst in English, sentences are more clear and to the point. The subject of the sentence is always clear, and the organization of the author's thoughts are more visible in a work. I myself often struggle with deciphering the meaning of longer sentences, which appear jumbled and emotional to me, a native English speaker. However, I am sure the opposite is true for a native Japanese speaker, who would most likely find English to be bland and blunt (and might even be offended by the bluntness of the language).

    Another barrier that one has to face when translating is a cultural barrier. For example, when translating The Friends, Hirano had to add explanations to certain terms that are well-known to Japanese readers, but which an English reader might not be familiar, such as her translation of juku (cram school). Instead of simply writing cram school, which would only confuse English readers, she chooses to provide a brief explanation of what cram school is. I personally think that this was a good solution in this case, as the explanation did not distract me (in my opinion) from the contents of the paragraph, whilst a footnote might have taken the reader out of the story.

    I also found it very touching when Hirano describes her son's (He is half Japanese and half Canadian) reaction to her English translation of The Friends. Despite being less-than proficient in the English language, her son's reactions to the English translation of the novel paralleled her own. She describes his reactions: "...laughing at the funny parts....He wept, heartbroken at the old man's death (I still cry there, even now)..." (Hirano 60). With this moment, I believe that she accomplished her goal. Like Hirano, I hope I can invoke similar feelings in my readers despite the presence of a cultural barrier.

"8 Ways to Say You: The Challenges of Translation" Reading Review- Jane

Cathy Hirano discussed a couple of points regarding the difficulties of translation throughout her article. She brings up that translation is not as simple as translating word for word into the desired language due to the underlying cultural assumptions that would not make sense to the new audience. In a lot of cases, the translator has to include extra content to help the reader understand a singular word in the context that it is read in the original language. I think this is interesting because I realize in some cases, when reading subtitles for Japanese shows, some words are changed into something much further from the original word that makes a little more sense in English. However, in my opinion, it still is not as in depth as I would like it to be for it to make more sense in English. At the same time, because it is a subtitle, the words that a translator can use are vary limited as it usually has to keep up with the person speaking. In this case, it is clear that translators are limited in their opportunity to explain culturally assumed texts.

In addition to cultural assumptions, the Japanese language is generally more subtle, emotional and less direct compared to the English language. Because of this, she stated that translating from enlgih to Japanese comes off as rude and over direct; on the other hand, when translating Japanese to English, the word sound emotional and almost childish. This also adds to the difficulties of translating because most languages are reflective of culture. In Japan, being vague and less direct when speaking is more socially acceptable, whereas in English, overly explaining things is avoided and most people get straight to the point. 

Because of the above mentioned challenges, Hirano admitted that it is difficult to bring the emotions that the original text has into the translated text. Humor, for example, is usually culturally specific or a play on words that would be hard to convey when translated. A great example is homophones. I know in Japanese, there are some homophones that can form a sentence that are considered " old man jokes." However, when translated directly to English, it would not make any sense. I notice in these cases, most writers put the equivalent of it in English. Unfortunately, when this route is taken, the joke is no longer the same and not true to the text. Cases like these make translation difficult and it is interesting getting to see how different translators approach problems like that. In the case of Hirano, she stated that she used her imagination and considered the context to help translate the humorous conversations that otherwise would bot make sense if directly translated.

Reading Responses (Micah)

In the article "How Haruki Murakami's '1Q84' Was Translated Into English", I found the various nuances that the translators struggled with to be interesting, and there were many I hadn't really thought of before. For example, the suffixes to address another person -san and -kun were things that the translators mentioned they struggled with. I thought that this would be something they could just omit in their writing, but their mentioning of this nuance made me realize that when translating a story in writing, it really is important to try to capture every detail as it can have an effect on the picture the original author may be trying to paint. I especially realized this when the two translators and Murakami debated over the name of a character that I would not have given much thought to if I were translating.

I found similar insights in the article "Found in Translation." In this article, the translators touched on the nuances of translating humor and culture form Japanese to English. Their responses made me realize that as a translator, you need to have some creative ability yourself, as they mentioned that for things such as wordplay, you have to do your best to find an English version on your own. But most of the time, it won't be too similar and you have to make your own judgement on what fits the best. In terms of culture, the translator noted that he needed to underscore climaxes for the American audience due to Japanese stoicism leading to climaxes conveyed in a toned down manner. 

Comments on Haruki Murakami reading (Racky)

 In the reading, the translator explains how he works on translating Haruki Murakami's novel called 1Q84. In the introduction, he describes how the translation style could differ for each translator. For example, one translator tends to use fewer contractions. This might make the translation sound different; however, he tries to think about how Haruki Murakami's novel sounds in English and which is the most important thing. 

He additionally mentions how the difference in the grammatical structure could affect the impression and sound of translation. For example, a Japanese sentence usually ends with a verb, while an English verb usually comes at the beginning. This Japanese grammatical structure sometimes makes the sentence sound softer compared with English. 

Also, the Japanese tend to be obscured compared to English, making the translation even more difficult. Besides this, the Japanese words used when people call other people, such as -San or -Kun, can provide completely different impressions to readers, while English cannot provide them. These linguistic differences are always obstacles to translator, but at the same time, this makes the translation even more unique and exciting.

Response to the readings due 9/18 (Bruce)

    In his discussion of whether a translated text can surpass the original in quality, Philip Gabriel recounted an anecdote in which author Oe Kenzaburo gave him a substantial amount of text to insert into his translation because he felt that it was closer to his original vision of the story. Not only was this the prime example of why an author should have a limited input on the translations of his works, I thought it was a rather poignant example of how singular a novel can be, and how little an author has to do with it. Like Kenzaburo, many writers probably struggle to flesh out their original vision on paper while retaining its original qualities. Sometimes, like humans should, they even fail to do so. Yet, readers might enjoy their failures nonetheless. Not because of schadenfreude, though a distinct possibility in any age, but because the experience of a novel is not crafted by the author, but by both the author and the reader (and for our purposes, the translator as well, though three is a crowd). 

 

    Emmerich discussed how everyone in his class experienced Murakami's works in a slightly different way. Yes, this could be attributed to the version of the translation they read. However, more subtle but interesting, in my opinion, is the differences in the readers' backgrounds that allow them to perceive literature in a slightly varied manner. Take, for example, Lieutenant Mamiya's story in The Wind-up Bird Chronicle, a vivid description of his experiences with the Japanese Imperial Army during the second World War. An American reader might feel moved at such a raw, emotional scene about the horrors of war. A Japanese reader might feel a much amplified feeling of the same form due to their connection with the history of their nation. A Chinese reader, on the other hand, might feel slightly ambivalent about the scene, due to the relations between the Chinese and Japanese during and after the war. Some may feel a sense of kinship, that their people were not the only ones who suffered through this period. Others may feel bitter, as though Murakami is neglecting to tell one facet of events while ignoring others.

    This leads to a concept of what I know as "participatory reading," a term coined by the late Toni Morrison, who is known to leave her texts somewhat vague with hopes that her readers will "participate" by filling the blanks with their flavor. As a result, a slightly different experience is created every single time her story is read. An ineluctable modality, if you will. 

Reading Responses (9/15) (Camille)

 I found J. Phillip Gabriel's comment on the struggles of translating between languages with such different grammatical structures really interesting, that it sometimes feels like he's "giving away the punchline" since the verb is always at the end of a Japanese sentence. It reminds me a little bit of watching a sitcom with subtitles - seeing the punchline written out before it actually happens in the scene. I wonder if there are cases where translators try to work around that constraint, modifying the phrasing to reveal information at a pace more comparable to the original text? 

I also thought it was really interesting that an author would reach out to a translator and ask them to remove/add text to the original. It puts translated works in a unique position of allowing the original work to continue to evolve, but it also invites questions about what the role of a translator is. 

The comparison of two translations of Murakami's The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle in Wendy Lesser's article was eye-opening. In Birnhaum's translation, the phrase "spaghetti-cooking music" caught my eye, because that phrasing just felt very Japanese to me (à la な adjectives...), in a way that Rubin's "music for cooking spaghetti" doesn't. On the other hand, since it's a somewhat unexpected phrasing in English, it does catch me by surprise in a way that the original Japanese sentence might not have intended to, so I can see arguments for both strategies, I'd be interested to see what the original text was! 

Reading Response (Matt)

Within all of the readings, something that I found in common was the topic of keeping the same feeling and tone that the writer initial had within the translated text. One thing that I found interesting was how the editor for "1Q84" had the two different translators between Rubin and Gabriel. Gabriel talks about the differences in translation style in the "How Haruki Murakami's '1Q84' Was Translated Into English" article, and I found that it was interesting that the editor tried their best to smooth out the nuances between the two writers translation styles, in particular Gabriel usually used more contractions compared to Rubin, and in the final edit, his section did have less contractions.

The articles also talked about the cultural differences and meanings that could get lost in the translations. That's why I admire that for the translation of Murakami's works, they tried to keep everything as close to the original meaning as possible since they know the importance of the cultural values that it could hold. It was interesting to learn that since Murakami had such a large western influence that could be seen in his works, some things like pun or jokes could be more feasibly translated by the translators.

Lastly, I did not realize how long was needed to translate something like this. In the article "How Haruki Murakami's '1Q84' Was Translated Into English", Gabriel touches on the fact that he would try to translate 4 pages a day which translated to about 10 months for him to have a first draft of the translation, and then having to go over it for a couple months just revising what he had initially written. The time and effort needed to tackle tasks like this was something I had not realized.

Response to Readings (9/15)

 All of these readings showed a very interesting take on the difference between the writing and translating styles of different translators. While the base text remains the same, different translators approach dealing with wordplay, descriptions, and context in many different ways. The ways that they approach these situations can also make certain readers love them or dislike them and their works. Something as simple as "using fewer contractions" plays a big role in having a signature of your own when it comes to translation. I find it interesting to see people's opinions on how important or unimportant it is to stay very close to the identity of the original text. Some don't stray far, and some writers, like those mentioned in the readings, ask to redact and add in new pieces of text as the idea for that literary piece has grown over time even after the original publication. It really makes me question if doing something like that is okay or if there should be a secondary work release for those adjustments. Additionally, I am always curious to see how different things such as wordplay or names are converted between the languages. Having a translator want to use "skinhead" for a character name and then be asked to use "buzzhead" by Murakami is very interesting as the translator's touch was lost in this piece, but at the same time, the piece is closer to the original kind of (?). Also seeing that multiple translators worked on the same story is very intriguing because I feel like even with the work of an editor the translations can still vary greatly amongst the two translators. As we saw for the text in the textbook, some translations just have a flow and style to them that a different translator may not capture at all. But then again, it begs the question of who was truly closer to the original work. 

Catherine Vess

Reading Response

    It kind of blew my mind to see just how differently a single piece of work can be perceived globally; Murakami's writings swing between being seen as almost dreamlike to being taken as straightforward, realistic portrayals. But what caught my attention even more was the role of translators in this whole scenario. It's not just about translating words verbatim; they shape and sometimes even reshape the narrative, adding their unique touch to it. It was a neat detail learning about the role of cover designs too, and how Chip Kidd’s artwork has massively shaped how we view Murakami’s works globally. It got me looking at literary translation in a new light, not just as a straightforward conversion from one language to another but a deeply artistic process where the essence of the story is tailored to resonate with different people globally.

Tai

Response to the readings (Musashi)

 First of all, it was very interesting to know how much time the translator spends on the translations of the books. twenty pages per week is much faster than I expected. Moreover, it was fresh to know how the speed of the translation process can vary a lot depending on the author. It makes sense to me that Murakami's literature was easier than others because his writing style is well influenced by European style and also more logical than other authors. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be to translate some books that authors like to write not logically and freestyle. It was also critical to realize how working with authors who are still alive could be very important. The option of asking a question to authors for clarification would definitely make the translation closer to perfect. 

We translate jokes in sentences, and there have been many debates about how we should translate, such as whether we should just translate jokes literally or translate with other jokes that can have the closest humor in English. Through the reading, the translator explained how they replaced words to make the same humor in English. It was very essential for me to see that. Moreover, when working with multiple translators, I was reminded how important the editor is in the process of revising translations to make the translations made by different translators as smooth as possible. Without the editors, it would be very confusing and not well-translated. I also liked how he did the translation in his own way instead of trying to translate in a similar style to make the translation in the best way while admiring Jay's and Alfred's translations. I think it is very important that each book has a very different meaning and no matter how many books of Murakami are translated by two of them, it's very important to translate in the style that works the best for the translation. 

Lastly, the question about whether the translation can improve and be better than the original was cool. As he answered, it is going to be very difficult, but it has at least some possibility to express the context better than the original since even the author sometimes asks to change the words to make it better in translation. 

Response to Readings (Kelly)

In " The Mysteries of Translation," I particularly enjoyed the metaphor Wendy Lesser had about being monolingual and being able to read a novel in Spanish if she was desperate enough but would get more out of it with a translation. This definitely spoke out to me with my level of Japanese and how I usually always seek out a subtitled version of whatever I'm watching to make sure I fully understand it. Her comparisons of the two versions of The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle as well as the discussion on Dostoevsky really emphasizes on the importance of translation in the way that still emulates the original author's voice as well as capturing the mood and message of the original. I've read Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment and it is long and truthfully, boring at times but it all builds up to the climax of main character's moral dilemmas and it is all done so well language wise that I forget the original is written in Russian. 

In the articles about Murakami Haruki's works, J. Phillip Gabriel mentioned "Stoicism in Japanese culture causes certain climaxes to be very low-key." Western culture is quite dramatic and our stories tend to be too, so having to balance both drama while maintaining stoicism to keep the mood of the original work can be difficult and is an interesting point.

Something else that was brought up was Japanese syntax structure. Phillip Gabriel mentioned "with Japanese verbs coming at the end, I sometimes feel that translating Japanese into English is like giving away the punch line." When I read Japanese, the fact that the verbs come at the end, especially a sentence with tons of noun modifiers, I never know what the action of the subject is until the very end. Personally, this is one of the hardest parts of translating Japanese to English because I always have to read or listen to the entirety of the sentence before I begin translating the sentence in my head.

Reading Response

 I enjoyed reading about various translation styles in "The Mysteries of Translation", and translators' thoughts in their interviews. However, I found myself wanting more concrete examples like the one that was in "The Mysteries of Translation". I also found myself overwhelmed by the abundance of people's names, finding it hard to keep them all in my head at once considering I haven't heard of most of the people mentioned. I also wondered if the reason Wendy Lesser preferred the translation of Birnbaum was because she read it first, or if she would have preferred it all the same even if she had read Rubin's first. 

I found it interesting how Wendy Lesser compared being monolingual to being in prison. This analogy works in two ways I think. More apparently, communicating with people who don't share a language with you is difficult to impossible, and it's almost as if there is a door that can only be unlocked by learning their language. Elements of their culture, their life, and any nuance that can only be captured in their language will forever be unknown to you. Secondly, languages themselves I believe can influence the very thought patterns of those who are familiar with them. This means that the way a native Japanese speaker thinks will be different from the way a native English speaker thinks, not only by virtue of a potentially different upbringing but by virtue of their mother tongue being different. Even if you know multiple languages, I think you are forever stuck in the box of your first. You may be able to get glimpses of the world others have to offer, but you will never come to see it as well as a native speaker will. 

Jordan

Response to the Readings (Daniel)

  I really liked how in Wendy Lesser’s “The Mysteries of Translation,” she provides a comparison of two separate translations of a passage from The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle. What especially stood out to me as I read through the two translations was how these two excerpts, while conveying the same core meaning, differed significantly in tone and style. I could see how if you were to read an entire book, you could gain so much more or miss out on so much depending on who translates the work, greatly impacting your reading experience. Moreover, for literature that has been translated by multiple translators, such as 1Q84, it was very interesting to learn how through the translator’s own efforts to stay as true to the original as possible and the editor’s efforts to establish consistency, it is possible to create a smooth, coherent translation.

When reading about the Chinese and English translations of Murakami’s work in “Fans around the world reading Haruki Murakami in parallel worlds,” it was very interesting to learn how students from different parts of the world viewed Murakami in distinct ways due to language differences. It prompted me to ask myself questions such as: Are some languages naturally more vague? More direct? Are some languages more suited for conveying particular emotions or concepts in literature? I believe all these questions open up a very complicated exploration of the relationship between languages and perception.

Response to the 9/15 Readings (Grace) - The Difficulty of Translation

The Difficulties of Translation - Grace

I agree with Wendy Lesser's notion that monolingual readers are trapped in a gilded prison. While English, my native language, has been used to craft some of the best works of literature of all time (The Canturbury Tales, Animal Farm, and Dune to name a few), other acclaimed literary works written in other languages are out of reach for many monolingual readers in America. As a result, monolinguals are forced to rely on translators to act as an intermediary between them and the original work. Due to this reliance, it is imperative that translations of the highest quality are released. However, what makes one translation better than another? What are some of the difficulties that translators face? Interviews with translators of Murakami shed some light on answers to this question. 

In "Found in Translation", two of Murakami's primary translators, Jay Rubin and Philip Gabriel, discuss the difficulties that they faced translating Murakami's 1Q84. Rubin struggled with over-explaining various elements of the novel. I can relate to this when I am trying to write scientific papers. It is difficult to distinguish whether or not a particular concept should be explained, and, if this is so, how much of an explanation is needed. I find it interesting how there are parallels such as this in the writing process for two different kinds of writing. In addition to over-explanation, Gabriel also brings up that culture is difficult to translate. I couldn't agree more. I can only imagine the struggle of trying to explain a foreign culture to readers whilst still keeping the rhythm of the original work. Maybe brief footnotes (if allowed) would be able to solve this problem?

“How Haruki Murakami’s 1Q84 got Translated into English” provides a more detailed account of the interview with Philip Gabriel. What surprised me the most while reading this interview was the sheer amount of time it took for Gabriel to finish his portion of the translation. Despite only translating the last third of the novel, it took him 10 months alone to finish only the rough draft! Before reading this, I thought that translations of a novel would take, at maximum, a few months to complete. With this interview, Gabriel brings to light how meticulous the translation process truly is. Another thing that surprised me about translated literature was that authors sometimes make changes to their original work for the translated version. I thought that something like this was blasphemous, as if the author were tainting their original story. I no longer think this, as an author should be able to change whatever they want to about their own story, but I still am flabbergasted that even great authors like Murakami feel the need to change their stories after publication. I wonder if Murakami later implemented any of his changes to the Japanese version of the novel?

Finally, “Fans around the world reading Haruki Murakami in parallel worlds” and "The Mysteries of Translation" provide insight into the effects that different translations have on readers. The first article by Michael Emmerich explains how the language that a translation is done in can really change how readers view the work and its author. For example, Emmerich observed that a Chinese student's view of Murakami and his stories differed drastically from his American students. The Chinese student was more focused on the key themes of and the terms Murakami uses in his stories whilst American students described Murakami as 'realistic' and 'difficult.' Emmerich also goes on to state that the difference in what language Murakami's works are read in shape how he is perceived to write and the tone in which he writes in. I don't find any of this surprising however, as translators, even if they deny it, are partial in their translations. This is further explained in the latter article by Wendy Lesser, who prefers different English translators of Murakami's work due to their writing style. What a translator chooses to include, exclude, and explain all differ by translator. So, the difficulties of translation manifest in the form of the claims made in these final two articles.

Examples of AI Translation

 

Example #1: I decided to translate a very popular saying in English, that means to not judge something just off of how it looks. When translating through google, I think that it did a good job of translating it in a literal sense. The only thing that it fails to do is give its actual meaning in Japanese, but I don't think that should be expected.

Example #2: This is a popular Japanese proverb that means to value substance over appearance. Similar to when google translated an English saying to Japanese, it successfully translated the literal meaning of the phrase. In this case it would be a lot harder to understand the meaning of the proverb just off of the translation since dango wasn't translated to English words.

Example #3: This is another example of google translating in a very literal way. One thing I found interesting is that it opted to use "ミス" and "スター" instead of "外す" and "星".

AI Translation

 I used deepl for the translation. 

The direct translation is correct, but is missing some nuance in the alternative translations. This phrase "くせになる” can be said about a food that you can't stop eating, but it would be weird to say "this pizza is becoming a habit". 

Example of AI translation

 

I used deepL to validate the accuracy of AI translations

1『風立ちぬ』

The word "kaze-tachinu" means "the wind rises" and is a line from a poem by French poet Paul Valéry in his "Cemetery by the Sea",but this MT has been translated as a wind storm.

2『木漏れ日』

The term "Komorebi" is often used in novels to refer to sunlight leaking through the leaves of trees.This MT translation translates in almost the same sense as the original meaning.

As these two examples show, even simple words cannot be translated as well as human words unless the context in which they are used and their origins are correctly understood.

Translation using AI

 Something I wanted to try was to attempt to see if the AI could encounter and English nuance of using "Tis" instead of the traditional "It's" which worked out well translating into Japan. However it seems that there is no way to get this translation from Japanese to English. 

Going further in, I decided to throw the first verse of the Jabberwocky poem by Lewis Carroll which seems to translate into something similar. but doesn't hold the original value of the poem necessarily. 

It particularly gets fun when doing a reverse translation from the Japanese translation back to the English one resulting in this.

Particularly it seems to struggle with converting the katakana back into the original English text since it doesn't really have anything to base the translation on other than the katakana in its most standard form and cannot guess that we need a variant to be used. 

AI Translation

 

This is an image from the first time I visited Japan. I noticed a funny translation on a vending machine and took a picture of it and it still remains in my memory. I was curious to see how deepl's translation would compare to the one I saw so I put it in. I was hoping for a dramatic difference in the translations but unfortunately, they are pretty much the same. There were also Chinese and Korean translations on the board so if anyone knows those languages feel free to see what it comes out to. 

Japanese to English Translation by AI

 

At home, I often speak to myself to organize my thoughts. Whenever I did, my mother would ask for me to repeat myself to which I would respond ”ごめん、独り言”. I always knew it generally meant "talking to yourself" but could never think of a direct English translation. I think it is very interesting that translation machines translate this phrase to "monologue" since, in reality, when I say it or this phrase is used in conversation, monologue would not be the word I translate to in English. Overall, I feel like it changes the context a little bit and might apply more to theatre or something like that.

Japan and English translation

This is the direct translation from Japanese to English. The major mistake I noticed in this translation is that it skipped the "石" part. In addition, the direct translation should be "Even a stone can be pierced by raindrops" so that this translation is not perfectly completed. 

This is another old proverb. This direct translation seems correct; however, direct translation does not always apply to old proverbs.  The first proverb on the top's actual meaning is, "If you constantly put effort into small things, you can eventually achieve big things." The other proverb's actual meaning is "putting effort into pointless things." This is because nothing will happen by pushing the curtain really hard.

From this translation, the proverbs' translations require more knowledge and experience because the direct translations often do not work for them.    
 

Machine Translation Examples

 Inspired by the recent movie "Oppenheimer", I tried translating the famous quote "Now I am become death, destroyer of worlds". I compared three different machine translation tools:

Reverso: 今、私は世界の破壊者である死になっています。

Google Translate: 今、私は世界の破壊者、死となった。

ChatGPT: 今、私は死神となり、世界の破壊者となった。

I think it is interesting how the different translation tools interpret the tense here. This is a tricky quote because it's already oddly phrased in English - we wouldn't usually say "I am become (noun)". If I tried to translate those sentences from Japanese into English, I would get something more like Now, I am the destruction of the world, I became/am becoming death. Since it's such a famous quote, I'm sure it has been translated into Japanese by a human translator , and I'd be curious to learn how it is usually done!

Machine Translation Examples

Example 1: Shakespeare

This first example is from  Romeo and Juliet, and the translation for this is a direct translation from english to Japanese, but this is supposed to be somewhat of an insult in the context of the play which is completely lost in the translation here.

Example 2: Excerpt from a book about entrepreneurship

English to Japanese

Japanese to English

For my second example I wanted to take an excerpt from a business focused book on entrepreneurship, and see how it translated one of the sentences, and see how well the translation back to english would be. I think one thing I noticed is that this sentence is probably one that could be split up into two different sentences instead of one long sentence, and it can be more noticeable that within the translation from Japanese back into english, there is a weird stopping point within the sentence which makes sense for the direct translation, but seems like it would sound awkward. 

It was interesting to see that for something like this, it might be better to actually deviate from the actual literal translation and interpret it in a different way.

Examples of Machine Translation

 

    The true translation is “a frog in a well knows nothing of the sea.” This proverb has its roots in older, more traditional Japanese literature, and it seems that this specific writing style is very difficult for MT to translate. 

       This is obviously taken from the clip we watched in class from "Lost in Translation." The translation is accurate for the most part, except for "say meet your old friend." I think that if the Japanese text was changed from 「会う」to「会った」the translation would be more accurate, but I wanted to use what the director actually said word-for-word.

Machine/AI Translations

 How reliable are machine/AI translations?

(Sampled with idioms)

Example 1: Google Translate

「明日のことを言うと天井のネズミが笑う」translates to "the rats on the ceiling laugh when I mention tomorrow" which on its own is quite nonsensical. Although the translation is accurate to a degree, without prior context, the idiom itself is hard to grasp. This particular saying is similar to the English quote "we make our plans and God laughs," and simply expresses the universal truth of we will never know what the future holds.

Example 2: DeepL

「出る杭は打たれる」is a phrase where its meaning is established with understanding the nuances of Japan's collectivist society. Unlike America, Japanese collectivism places an emphasis on being a part of the group rather than individualism, thus the nail which sticks out gets hammered in. The translation itself is accurate but what was unique here was that DeepL provided an alternative 2nd explanation that incorporated the deeper meaning of the proverb.

Example 3: ChatGPT

「井の中の蛙、大海を知らず」is a phrase similar to the idiom "to be a big fish in a small pond" where both meanings stress the importance of widening a limited perspective. ChatGPT did a great job here, not only translating the sentence accurately but also provided a proper explanation for the idiom without being asked to.

While the translations itself were accurate for all three different programs, I find ChatGPT to offer the most literate explanation and translation but for a simple, direct translation? They seem decent enough with some previous context. 

Examples of machine translation from Japanese

 

In Japanese, sometimes, we abbreviate the pronouns after the sentences. In this sentence, the pronouns for "went to Shibuya to eat" should be we. However, the MT would not know it, and used "I" instead. This is a mistake caused by MT. 

This is a paraphrase that Japanese people use often to begin a conversation respectfully. 

However, if the conversation starts with those translated sentences, readers will be confused. 

MT will still face issues with these idioms, slang, and abbreviations. 

Examples of Colloquial Japanese Phrases Translated

 One criticism of machine translation (MT) is that it fails to capture the cultural context of many phrases. I've decided to illustrate this by entering a few well known Japanese phrases into Google Translate.

1. 「物の哀れ」is a literary idiom used to describe the sadness that one feels towards the transience of physical things. It is a mellow yet profound sorrow that accompanies the realization that nothing is permanent.

Interestingly, the above translation is listed in Wikipedia as the literal translation. While I don't particularly agree with the literal translation, it is more important to see that the nuanced meaning of the phrase is completely lost.

2.「月が綺麗ですね」is a very famous expression attributed to Natsume Soseki, who chose to translate "I love you" as the above, which literally translates to "the moon is beautiful, isn't it?"

As one would expect, the literal meaning is correctly translated, but the literary meaning has been lost.

3. 「草生える」is a commonly used colloquialism in reaction to a humorous or comedic situation. It literally translates to "grass growing."

As in the previous example, the literal translation is correctly shown, but the colloquial meaning is lost.

4. 「狐の嫁入り」is an expression frequently used to refer to beautiful yet eerie events. Most commonly, it is used to refer to sun showers and other meteorological events, such as a rainbow. Its origins come from legends from the Edo period, in which supernatural events were commonly written down. There are also many regional variations of the phrase and its meaning. It literally translates to "the fox's marriage."

Surprisingly, Google did output a non-literal meaning. Yet, much of the cultural and regional nuance has still been lost as it prefers the most commonly used meaning.

Examples of AI Translations from English to Japanese

 Can AI Accurately Translate English to Japanese? - Some Examples

Example 1: A simple sentence from a novel

This quote is from Erin Hunter's Warriors series. All that you need to know here is that the 'three' mentioned are obviously non-human (they are cats). While some portions of the translation are correct, such as the first line and most of the second in Japanese, the AI assumes that the protagonists are human despite the mentioning of paws.

Example 2: Academic studies

This sentence was taken from a literature review of tonic immobility in various shark species. The translation here is done fairly well with no egregious errors. If anyone finds any, feel free to comment on this post!

Example 3: Slang

This translation is hilariously awful due to how unnatural it is. The use of 面白い (interesting) does not suit the meaning of the sentence. To describe something as 'funny' it would be better to use 楽しい. Also, native speakers of Japanese tend to use 草 as an equivalent to 'lol,' and not (笑). A better translation overall would be: それはとても楽しいですね草。

Example 4: An English phrase

This translation was surprisingly well done! 薄幸 (ill-fated) is an equivocal term to 'star-crossed.'

Example 5: A famous quote

The translation of this quote is also well done.

So, can AI be used to accurately translate a piece? That depends. Google Translate was able to translate shorter sentences/terms, as evidenced in example 4. It struggles however when a sentence gets more complex (with the exception of example 2), or incorporates slang terms. From these examples, I believe that AI can be used for short sentences/terms and in academic writing, but it would be difficult to use in longer, more complex sentences or when translating social media posts, which use a lot of slang.